Art Farmer

Played with Wardell Gray

Section One:

Art Farmer:
Testing one two three, testing one two three four five six.
Abraham:
Is that the level you'll be talking at? Let me take one more reading here. O.K. You can take your time, there's no rush. You can take your time. Can I sit on this chair?
Art:
I first met Wardell in Los Angeles in 1945 he was working with the Earl Hines orchestra and he came out to play at a place called the Lincoln Theatre. And I went around backstage and met him then. And that was just briefly. I didn't see him again until probably the early fifties, I guess it must have been around 1950 or 51, he came back to Los Angeles with the Benny Goodman orchestra. And he decided to settle in Los Angeles at that time. And that's when I really got to know him and we started to play various jobs together. Sometimes with Wardell Gray's quintet and sometimes with a group that was led by Dexter Gordon and Wardell Gray.
Abraham:
What about those liner notes?
Art:
He was a very wonderful person to work with of course. Wardell recorded for a label called "Prestige" records and that's the label that I recorded with Wardell on and these records have been reissued by "Prestige" or "Fantasy" records. And an English writer named Mark Gardner wrote the liner notes on it and he said Wardell was thought of as a father figure to the younger jazz musicians out in Los Angeles, at least some of them. I would say he was more like a big brother, he was more approachable than a father figure would be and not quite as stern. But he was very helpful and that's the way I felt about him and also reading Hampton Hawes' biography he felt the same way also since he had already been there although he was comparatively a young man. He'd already played with the top people in the business, such as Count Basie, Benny Goodman, Benny Carter, Earl Hines, Billy Eckstine to name a few. So he had the experience that we could learn from by talking to him and playing with him and listening and seeing how he conducted himself. He was a very honest and frank person, he would tell you what was wrong and what was right. Just a good guy to be with.

Section Two:

Art Farmer:
I can't think of any stories about Wardell really. This crosses into how does Wardell influence your playing. I mean we could include one in the other.
Abraham:
Yes, let's do that. O.K.
Art:
To play with Wardell was like playing with the professor because he was an excellent musician and he always knew exactly what he was trying to do. And he was able to do it. And he was a wonderful example for us in Los Angeles because he was really doing what we wanted to do. And we could learn just by listening with him and to be on the same bandstand with him and to play after him you really had to put your best foot forward. I remember talking to him one day and at that time I wasn't working that much because of the scene in Los Angeles wasn't too much going on for Jazz. Actually I had a day job working in the Los Angeles County General Hospital. And if Wardell got a job where he could use me then I would take that or else I might work for the other people who liked what I was doing. But I remember telling him one day, I said you know if I could just work six months steady I would really have it all together. And he looked at me as if to say well, if you could do it that fast you're a better man than I am. He was really surprised that I had such a naive attitude about it, that it would just take six months. Of course he was completely right because what I was trying to do then is a never ending quest, and it's not six months or six years, it's a lifetime thing. And he knew that and I'm sure that he felt the same way himself . But for me to listen to him I felt that he was perfect already.

Section Three:

Abraham:
You said something, if he was allowed to live, you want to say anything about that
Art:
Well, he came to an untimely end. He was still in his, I think he was still in his twenties or in his early thirties when he died. Maybe I shouldn't have said if he had been allowed to live but he certainly didn't die a natural death. Exactly what happened I don't know. And I've asked people and I haven't been able to get any unified answer. Some people say one thing and some people say another. So I just, I would not like to make any guesses about it. Because it would just be idle chatter. But I know when I last saw him I was leaving Los Angeles to go work with Lionel Hampton's band and he told me that he thought I was making a mistake going with Lionel Hampton because Lionel Hampton wasn't a band where you stood a chance to learn much about music because he was primarily oriented towards making a floor show type of thing. And Wardell knew that I was very serious about trying to learn music. But I told him that I understood what he was saying but I had to leave because the situation in Los Angeles wasn't fruitful. I was working in the County General Hospital and many people my age were getting involved with narcotics. And sort of drifting away from what they really wanted to do with their lives because there just wasn't the possibilities there and that's what I wanted to get away from. He was living out there, he had been travelling for the, for his life. I mean for the majority of the time of his life as a mature man and I think he wanted to get off the road for a while, but there wasn't really that much for him to do out there either.

Section Four:

Art:
Wardell didn't influence my playing in the way that people think one influences another player which is usually that you copy what you here. I never copied a note that I heard Wardell play but he influenced my playing in striving for excellence because he was a very good player he played his ideas, he expressed himself very well and being able to hear him play well then that set a certain standard that I still go by. He was very strong in melodic content and very strong in rhythm. He had a good natural swing to him which it would be wonderful if I could ever get that but I don't' think that's ever going to happen. But I really love the way his lines just flowed and nothing sounds strained. It was never pressing it was just a natural flow. And it was just dancing you know, the notes just danced. If you saw the notes animated they would just be some dancing notes on the screen. So that's about all I can say for his influence. What lingers with me about Wardell is from that time, from that historical time, like in the fifties, in the early fifties or the late forties, the music that we were playing then we thought that the music would sooner or later be accepted by the general public. After being here many years later I see, I feel now that the music never will be accepted by the general public but it still lives and thrives in spite of that. Which is a sign of how strong the music is. Wardell was the person living also in a time where we didn't have any idea of how much money could be made in this kind of music or in music in general. We were really more oriented (knocking on door) Yes,
Abraham:
I'll get it.
Art:
Probably wants to get in the mini-bar. You can tell him to come back.
Abraham:
Tell him to come back? In ten minutes?
Art:
Yeah.
Abraham:
Could you come back in ten minutes?