Buddy De Franco

Played Clarinet with Wardell Gray

Section One:

Abraham:
Are you ready with the mic? You want to give me a slate? O.K.
Buddy De Franco:
Okay, just go on with it? We were talking about Wardell. Wardell's ability to swing musically, maybe even now, I don't know what the younger musicians talk about but we used to talk about swing, whether swing isn't on top of the beat, behind the beat right on the beat, but I think swing has nothing to do with behind the beat, in front of the beat, or on top of the beat or on the beat. I think it has everything to do with the combination of the inherent gut or soul of the musician playing. In other words, I've heard some very intense players and if you analyze for instance, the great John Coltrane, some of his ballads especially, where he would play a million notes across a very slow four, none of the notes would be on the beat or off the beat at any given time. It would be on, off, late, forwards, and yet the pulse, the inherent pulse from the soul of the player was there, of John Coltrane. And Wardell had just a natural way of swinging and he could play, he could fool with the time, he could play behind, or forward or on it and make certain statements but there, the way he made certain statements is the way that made him swing so to speak. I know so many school bands throughout the United States that say we're going to play like Count Basie, so our ensemble is going to play behind the beat, which is basically how Basie's band operated. The rhythm was steady and the ensemble played behind the beat. However, it's not so much that they played behind the beat, as they inferred that they were behind the beat and that the soul, the feeling was from the depth of the organism. Late, of course, behind, a little bit behind but you couldn't put it into a computer and say here's how far behind the beat Count Basie's band played. You see? There were a lot of times where they played right on the money though, maybe a couple of times they might have gone ahead a little. So sum it up, swing is like feeling, it's like the feeling of Jazz. Swing is the ambiguous mysterious element, it's either there or isn't there. And Wardell had it.

Section Two:

Buddy:
You're in the story, can I talk to you?
Abraham:
You don't have to hide the fact that I'm here
Buddy:
Shall I call you Abraham or Abe?
Abraham:
Anything you like.
Buddy:
"Honest Abe".
Abraham:
Could you tell us about his playing, what was it specifically, people talk about his ideas, that he was amazing in terms of his ideas about playing. Could you say something about that, what was it about his ideas?
Buddy:
Well, see, there again, my terminology would not be ideas because that infers that you assemble a variety and you package a variety of cliches of licks. Now we all use patterns, there's no question about that, but the patterns, I feel, are like the words in any language. When you write a book you use the same words as so and so does, the English language, but it's where you place them. How you place them. That comes from within. So it's not so much ideas as the fluency, the flow of his particular patterns that belonged to him and the way he played them. Naturally he was influenced with players it's obvious Coleman Hawkins and the "Bird" (Charlie Parker) like we all were. But we all kind of put that together and mixed it up and tried to bring out our own personality. And Wardell had his own personality in the way he played and so that was what we might consider ideas. But my concept wouldn't be so much of his ideas as the way he fluently played whatever came into his head, you see. And I consider Jazz, the best Jazz are the guys who can extemporaneously play unedited.